Description: The essentials of meter in four simple exercises.
Leader: weirdelf
Moderator(s): I would love help from anyone who knows how to parse meter. Any volunteers?
Objectives: To write four quatrains, all in strict meter. One in Iambic pentameter, one in Trochaic hexameter, one in Anapaestic trimeter or pentameter, one in Dactylic tetrameter or hexameter.
Don't be put off by these technical terms, I will explain all when the workshop starts, and you don't have to use the technical terms, you can always say things like 'da DUM times five' but I suspect it's a bit less cool.
Level of expertise: Open to all
Subject matter: Meter is the most important and most neglected aspect of our craft. I urge you to do this exercise at least once, and promise you you will feel a new power in your pen.
Most important:- Remember when posting each quatrain do not post to this page, post as a normal poem to the Stream but to scroll down to the 'Workshop' drop-down and select 'Basic and Essential Meter'.
ALAS
I'll be under the influence of pain killers during the heart of this shop so I must decline being a true participant (good timing on your part? lol). But I'll ghost along as I can.......stan
As I said in the blog, you will be here
You wouldn't welch for $3.50.... I think.
We are going to be using live sound where possible
So all participants, if you are using a laptop or phone make sure your microphone is turned on.
Don't worry if you can't hear or record. All the important information will be text.
May I post my translation of
May I post my translation of Boris Pasternak's poem?
It is an attempt to write in four feet iambic lines,
With one extra syllabus at the end of the line one and three? I am having a tough time to keep the meter and need help fixing it a bit. Are you game?
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We'll get to the specifics later. Trust me on this
Four lines in Iambic Pentameter. No rhyme. The content means little. It can be nonsense.
tat Dum, ta Dum, ta Dum, taDum, ta Dum
Soon.
.
Well get into specific types of meter soon,
for now lets just enrol and talk.
Sorry just saw this. I can
Sorry just saw this. I can unpublish my submissions.
I'd like to participate
Would like to join thank you kindly,
Mario
thanks man, you are in
and welcome.
Is
Rhyme forbidden or just not required?
It is highly discouraged.
The emphasis is on meter and rhyme can screw with meter. Please don't do it.
okey
dokey
join
My I join the group?
Welcome, Tyro!
you're in.
We can start talking about what meter means to you.
Have your say, I'd like to find out where you are at.
Meter.......
Well to me meter is the difference between poetry and plain prose. It sets the "beat" that often makes lines memorable. Even in free verse it can be used here and there to emphasize parts of a poem.........
Good Stan. An important aspect.
What about terms like rhythm, cadence and flow?
Poetic prose can have cadence, flow, without meter though. What's the difference?
the difference?
Maybe it is that meter has a set number of beats between rhyming or near rhyming words while a poem Can have decent flow without strict meter
What meter means to you
Meter opens a greater creativity for me. When I have to consider meter I can't just let it flow from my head, but find i am forced to craft my thoughts more; and this crafting opens richer ideas, and new insights.
each meter has its own tone and style
and lends itself to different themes and structures. A learning of the basics allows you to pick the right one.
It need never inhibit, only enhance creative expression.
for me sometimes a meter attaches it self to the merest glint of a concept and a poem is born, at others I build a construct and design a meter to fit it.
meter is the difference between poetry and plain prose
I have seen metered prose, so meter to me does not make the different between poetry and prose. Poetry to me is first of all content, though certain
tools may enhance its presentation.
this is true, and not
the poetic process, along with music is the most elusive, esoteric and barely frangible of artforms.
I agree. It is hard to say
I agree. It is hard to say what makes poem poetic. But meter makes it to be heard.
Btw, WElf, I posted trochaic pentameter in your workshop. Wake up Australian, time to count my s-t.
Hasty, much!
You initially forgot to link it to the workshop.
Must the submission be 4
Must the submission be 4 lines, or can it be longer?
4 lines is the minimum to get a sense of meter
but no epics please!
The first excercise is a quatrain in Iambic Pentameter
The first exercise is a quatrain in Iambic Pentameter.
Iambic means ta DUM, Pentameter means there are five of them per line.
Please don’t try to rhyme, it only detracts. And don’t worry too much about meaning, it is the sound that sounds.
ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/
ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/
ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/
ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/
or if you prefer Bold just select the syllable and hit Ctrl B
ta dum/ ta dum/ ta dum/ ta dum/ ta dum/
ta dum/ ta dum/ ta dum/ ta dum/ ta dum/
ta dum/ ta dum/ ta dum/ ta dum/ ta dum/
ta dum/ ta dum/ ta dum/ ta dum/ ta dum/
Note, that the syllables can split words and include polysyllabic words
Eg Stopping by Woods On a Snowy Evening (By Robert Frost)
“He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there’s some mistake.
The only other sound’s the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.”
“He gives/ his harn/ess bells/ a shake
To ask/ if there/’s some/ mistake.
The on/ly oth/er sound's/ the sweep
Of eas/y wind/ and down/y flake.”
Get it?
Here is how it sounds. I'll read it twice , once normal, once exaggerating the meter. have exaggeratted the meter so you can hear it.
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1n45HBcTmvO
You're in
and welcome
Here are the terms we'll be using
Foot type Stress pattern Or Just Say Syllables
Iamb- Unstressed + Stressed da DUM Two
Anapaest- Unstressed + Unstressed da da DUM Three
+Stressed
Trochee- Stressed + Unstressed DUM da Two
Dactyl- Stressed + Unstressed DUM da da Three
+Unstressed
Amphibrach- Unstressed + Stressed da DUM da Three
+Unstressed
Spondee- Stressed + Stressed DUM DUM Two
Pyrrhic- Unstressed + Unstressed da da Two
Catalexis- Broken foot One
Foot count
1-Monometer
2-Dimeter
3-Trimeter
4-Tetrameter
5-Pentameter
6-Hexameter
7-Heptameter
8-Octameter
Some other useful thoughts on meter
Caesura - Sometimes a natural pause occurs in the middle of a line rather than at a line-break.
Iambic, Anapaestic, Trochaic, and Dactylic are the most common and important.
Iambic and Anapaestic, mix quite well, both ending in stressed syllables and make for strong rhyming.
Trochaic, and Dactylic mix quite well, both ending in unstressed syllables and make for subtle rhyming.
Iambic Pentameter is said to resemble the human heart beat.
Trochaic, and Dactylic are popular in ballads and epics.
You will find what works best with your form.
For the most creative and highly successful experiments with meter read Gerard Manley Hopkins 'Sprung Meter". Being poets we hate rules and try everything at least twice or more but experiments with meter are like experiments with spelling. It either doesn't work at all or it is just plain wrong. One exception re spelling would be Roger McGough.
Please post your Iambic Pentameter Quatrains,
No rhyme or significant meaning necessary, just play with the meter. I will mark them up for you and record some where we disagree on stress and pronunciation. I've only heard from Tyro and IRiz so far, come on, have a go ya mugs!
Remember when posting each quatrain do not post to this page, post as a normal poem to the Stream but to scroll down to the 'Workshop' drop-down and select 'Basic and Essential Meter'.
Good information! Is it to
Good information! Is it to late to join this workshop?
you're in and welcome!
Reckon you can whip up a quick quatrain in Iambic Pentameter before we move on to Trochaic? Remember rhyme and even meaning don't matter much, it's about getting a feel for the sound of the meter.
Remember when posting each quatrain do not post to this page, post as a normal poem to the Stream but to scroll down to the 'Workshop' drop-down and select 'Basic and Essential Meter'.
I did my trochaic poem. So I
I did my trochaic poem. So I will wait.
Jess
a) Can a quatrain in a sonnet have both iambic and trochaic pentameters?
b) in such a quatrain can pentameter be a mix of iambic and trochaic?
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a quatrain is 4 lines.
Iambic and Anapaestic, mix quite well, both ending in stressed syllables and make for strong rhyming.
Trochaic, and Dactylic mix quite well, both ending in unstressed syllables and make for subtle rhyming.
Thanks Jess
for the details
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Jess
this may be a very fundamental query which is:-
Does one first write at free will and then try to fit it in meter? I have always found this to be a problem while trying to write in strict meter. To be honest this has been my struggle with meter. Does this come naturally to some who have a great vocabulary to choose from?
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Think of it like 'muscle memory'
When you learn something well enough you don't have to think about it.
You will have noticed there is very little formal meter in my poetry but because I know it it slips in when appropriate.
Many poets have an objection to learning meter because they think it will restrict them into formalism. Quite the the opposite, it expands your creative abilities.
Ok..I understand what you
Ok..I understand what you mean Jess that once I learn the meter [which will certainly take lot of effort] it then becomes second nature / involuntary function...
Thanks for explaining with a good example..
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Certainly your accent might add some difficulties.
Do you own a phone, a laptop or a desktop computer with a plug-in speaker or headset?
If so record your works for this workshop, save them as an Mp3 file and upload them to Vocaroo
https://vocaroo.com/
or SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/
so we can hear what you are saying. Americans say cigarette whilst English speakers say cigarette. Neither is right or wrong but hearing your differences may help us understand you better.
An Americarn once said to me, facetiously.
"The language is the same only the emphasis is different"
https://vocaroo.com/i/s0kPMPwxSNRZ
Thanks Jess for the tips
Thanks Jess for the tips/suggestion
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Just some thoughts.
Frost is a real good one to read
Robert Frost he was almost 100% iambic pentater. I find some of the Japenese short form more to my liking.
.
.
No thoughts, it's time to act.
Do that first exercise Mario, here, I'll repeat it for you-
The first exercise is just four lines in Iambic Pentameter.
Iambic means ta DUM, Pentameter means there are five of them per line.
Please don’t try to rhyme, it only detracts. And don’t worry too much about meaning, it is the sound that counts.
ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/
ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/
ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/
ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/ ta DUM/
Note, that the syllables can split words and include polysyllabic words
I gave Robert Frost as an example.
You are very very fond of giving advice to everyone else, Mario, and seldom listen or respond to others. Anyone would think you were a half-way competent poet. Let's see if you can put your pen where you mouth is.
Hi Jess
Today I look through dopey eyes
merely a visit to say hello
but aware my meds are keeping me
from being metric as I might be
(I Know this is way off but focusing right now is not happening lol
What's Behind ?
Long is the jeourney to death,
dragging feet that the ising dust
engulf, a naive soul may ask
looking left," what's behind that? "
Mario! Explicit instructions were given.
You post your exercises to the Stream, selecting the Workshop drop-down, not here on the workshop thread.
Get it?
(I am exercising every effort of will I have to not abuse you about everything you are at the moment )
Perfection achieved!
tyro has written two quatrains of perfect Trochaic Pentameter!
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/she-dreams
Remember I've never suggested that anyone use perfect meter all the time. No-one ever does. The point of this workshop is to learn the sound and feel of each of the four major meters.
Whatever the foot count, which is best reasonably consistent, if one can compose in mostly Iambic with a little Anapaest and Catalexis or mostly Trochaic with a little Dactylic and Catalexis it gives the poem a cohesive harmonic that can not be achieved any other way.
Let's Have A Truce Jess
We aren't getting any where by fighting each other and putting each other down,
For me its hard to understand you with your mood swings in all so I proclaim a truce;
As far as posting I have a hard time doing that cause the site you told me about doesn't exist.
Jess sorry if I offended you so lets bygones be bygones and get on with writing poetry.
No offense, but I like Neopoet and truly want to perfect my craft on this site.
Fighting each other proves nothing !
Agreed.
Let's nothing personal intervene, let's work on the beauty and elegance, and sometimes visceral savagery of our craft.
What I would ask you to do is make an attempt at the exercises in this workshop and I promise you fair, non-personal critique. I truly believe, from knowledge, experience, vast reading, academic study and a modicum of personal talent that meter is way the most important tool of our art. I apologise for attacking you over a simple mistake, post your exercises to the Stream with this workshop selected, not on this thread.
'Promise' is a much misused word but I promise you it will improve and enlarge the range of your work.
Read other peoples submissions at https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/view/23136 and see how I put a lot of work into parsing them, even doing readings when I think it will help. Especially check out tyros's two quatrains of perfect Trochaic Pentameter!
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/poems/she-dreams
Remember we are not trying to write good poetry here, we are learning the sound and feel of meter.
Are we ok then?
Ready for some Trochees?
The second exercise is a quatrain in Trochaic Tetrameter. This is a bit easier than the last one, having only four feet per line. I've done that because Iambic is the most commonly used foot in English poetry, our ears are 'trained' to it, so Trochees feel a bit awkward at first.
Trochee means DUM ta , Tetrameter means there are four of them per line.
Please don’t try to rhyme, it only detracts. And don’t worry too much about meaning, it is the sound that sounds.
DUM ta/ DUM ta/ DUM ta/ DUM ta
DUM ta/ DUM ta/ DUM ta/ DUM ta
DUM ta/ DUM ta/ DUM ta/ DUM ta
DUM ta/ DUM ta/ DUM ta/ DUM ta
or if you prefer Bold just select the syllable and hit Ctrl B
dum ta/ dum ta/ dum ta/ dum ta
dum ta/ dum ta/ dum ta/ dum ta
dum ta/ dum ta/ dum ta/ dum ta
dum ta/ dum ta/ dum ta/ dum ta
A famous example is from Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's The Song of Hiawatha
Note, that the syllables can split words and include polysyllabic words.
As you start on it let's discuss how it 'feels' different from Iambic meter. How you might choose on or the other for a particular mood, style or tone of poem.
Remember the point is the meter here, not the poetry.
It is to learn the sound and feel of metric forms and compare them.
Iriz, Tyro and BJ have attempted both forms so far. How did you feel about the differences between them?
The iambic was very easy, it
The iambic was very easy, it almost wrote itself. It seem so close to natural speech I only had to twerk those few places where it was needed.
The trochaic was far more difficult. It called for a forceful speech, and to me an unnatural one. It was especially difficult getting the first lines to comply with the meter requirements. I even felt I cheated a bit by making line breaks where I normally would not make them in order to bring the meter in line, and at the same time keep the read smooth.
I was having trouble until the comment by IRiz of trochaic being good for telling stories, it certainly helped me.
agreed, Tyro,
Iambic is the most natural meter, resembling the human heartbeat. It also makes rhyming easier.
However all the other meters serve a function in terms of the way the message and feel of the poem is conveyed. The best example I can think of is Longfellow's 'Hiawatha'. Trochaic and Dactylic are useful for epic and balladic poetry as they lead more naturally from one line to the next.
Ok, folks, I'm closing this workshop soon.
I'll come back with a new one for more complex forms and incorporating other prosodic devices soon.
For now are there any new submissions or any submissions you would like more feedback on?
Otherwise please give me feedback on how the workshop was run and how useful it was for you. All suggestions and criticism are welcome.
Thank you for a great workshop.
Dear W-Elf,
Thank you for your help. I agree with you, once you said that to start writing with a better rhythm it helps to practice counting. As soon as the count sinks in the meter comes back subconsciously when needed. I am not there yet, but moving closer thank you for your time and efforts.
I wander if before closing you consider doing one more prompt.
Maybe any meter with two short and one long syllabi combination?
These meters make poems flow smoother, what do you think?
Thank you, Irene
Workshops on meter have always been the most exhausting and frustrating I have ever done.
Most poets think it is 'rules' that limit their creativity. My Masters thesis on poetry proved to the world art community that meter is the prime driving force of poetry. But rhyme is easy. Prose broken into lines is easy.
Fuckit, I am near despair but yes, I'll come back with another workshop, only if people express interest when I blog my intentions.
No more exercises in this one, sorry. I put a lot of myself into this and it is not easy. I'm tired.
Thank you so much for learning the one thing I wanted to impart.
That by learning meter it becomes an intellectual 'muscle memory' that helps your poetry flow more melodically.
Any more feedback or requests from anyone?
Any more feedback or requests
Any more feedback or requests from anyone?
Hi Wierdelf
Hi Wierdelf
It was a good workshop and I picked up some good points of wisdom from you, as to the importance of meter. I sincerely hope you do another in the near future. I appreciate the work and time you put into it to help others. I do have a question, do you think it would be a good idea to try and use iamb in free verse? And is iamb the only meter possible in free verse?
Thanks again for your time and dedication.
thanks tyro
Meter only works when it is used consistently, that's why I chose quatrains as the minimum framework.
Yes, meter works especially well in free verse as it is less obvious than rhyme and Iambic is the most natural meter, both for the English tongue and because it resembles the human heartbeat. It can mix well with Anapaestic as both stress the last syllable but clashes with Trochaic and Dactylic which stress the first syllable.
Listen, poetry is a craft and skill like any other. Who without any learning can pick up a palette and paint brilliantly? Or take a lump of clay and shape a David, let alone sculpt it from a flawed piece of marble. We're not talking rules we're talking skills and craftsmanship.
Once again I refer to the concept of 'muscle memory'. If you read some examples of various meters and consciously try to write in those meters, no matter how crappy the poems turn out, your mind learns to 'hear the sound' and almost unconsciously insert it where appropriate.
I have only ever met two poets who had an innate, unlearned grasp of it, both natural poetic geniuses, both members of Neopoet. Lonnie and Esker. Both recently deceased to our great loss. However as far as I know meter does not cause premature death. It's just that most poets live hard and die young. But that is not a prerequisite either, hard living junky William Burroughs lived to 84. Even I've made it to sixty despite all expectations [grins].
Thanks for your feedback and yes, I will run more. Even leading up to that master of original, almost indefinable meter, Gerard Manly Hopkins and his 'sprung meter'.
Thanks Jori, I asked for help,
not many people are confident parsing meter, for which poetry as a whole suffers.
You can still post your trochaic if you like, let me know when you do and I'll check it out.